Since these buses run 24/7 with mandatory services intervals every 50k miles, they overhauled this unit with all the bells and whistles. When in drive, first gear slips but when in manual first gear, no slippage. Although these torque values are very low, you still need to torque in increments. PS. 1996-2004 Mustang 4.6L 2V 4R70W Transmission Gear Ratios. It does not store any personal data. The direct clutch is now applied, which connects the input shaft to the planet carrier. 132 N. Howard St, Akron, OH 44308 The MLPS is outside and is tied to the manual shift linkage. Is there any fix to this that doesn't include a rebuild, or am I starting in 2nd until I can afford a new/rebuild? Wet frictions allow for more accurate clearances during assembly. Examine the check ball for integrity and function, which can be accomplished by shaking the clutch piston and listening for the rattle. 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Staggering these gaps helps contain line pressure at the source. Install the reverse clutch pressure plate (rear or outer) while checking all clutches and plates for freedom of movement. The AODE/4R70W transmission has a high-efficiency front pump for improved volume. Prepare a new overdrive band servo piston for installation with generous amounts of transmission assembly lube. Fords AOD evolved into a highly successful mechanically modulated transmission from its 1980 introduction until production ended in 1991. Begin with a plate and alternately stack clutch discs and plates. Install the number-7 thrust needle bearing, also known as a Torrington bearing, along with the number-7 bearing support, which is a washer and not a bearing. But then, the 4R70W is also not a great place to end your search either. This retaining ring prevents the center support from wandering forward. Sales & Info: 330-434-5216 Sometimes the MAF sensor causes transmission problems. You dont want to feel downshift. However, fuel-efficient automobiles were environmentally and economically friendly and could cover more miles with far less fuel. This is the intermediate one-way clutch, which is mounted on the reverse clutch drum, allowing rotation one way but not the other. The needle bearing, also known as a Torrington bearing, reduces internal rolling and thrust friction. Park is the last manual detent when the linkage is full forward. Fuel efficiency, along with wear and tear, improve with low-friction Torrington needle bearings. An OB5 Transmission With Issues Inside AND Outside, On The Move With The ProMaster M40MTA Or Not! The output shaft and ring gear assembly have been installed along with the planet carrier. The MCCC gets pulsing signals from the PCM. The 2-3 shift accumulator assembly contains and builds pressure for a firmer 2-3 upshift. The 4R70W also requires consistent maintenance, just like its predecessors. Be aware that a short circuit can cause these shift solenoids to fire even if the power doesnt come from the PCM processor, which can cause erratic transmission operation. If the SS1 solenoid remains energized or the 1-2 shift valve sticks, you dont get a 1-2 upshift. Note the proper installation and how the rollers are located (arrows). Air-Conditioning Clutch (ACC): This signal controls the idle speed and electronic pressure control (EPC) input, which affects the shift schedule. Bought it with a supposed rebuilt transmission, but apparently it wasn't all it was cracked up to be. The seal grooves and seals must be hospital clean. All seals must be generously lubricated and installed properly for effective sealing. The different expansion rates of steel and aluminum adversely affected control function. This allows for a pressure path to the direct clutch (engaged). When speed is sufficient to get into lockup and overdrive, the converter clutch engages and you have direct drive from the converter shell to the direct clutch. When they work properly, the 4R70W and 4R75W is a reliable transmission. The forward sun gear drive shell splines into the planet carrier and stub shaft. Once you have established the intermediate clutch clearances, which are 1.634 to 1.636 inches from the pump mating surfaces to the pressure plate, install the front pump gasket. Focus on any electronic add-on components. It is recommended that you lube the thrust bearing with transmission assembly lube for a good wet start-up. Work the sun gear drive shell back and forth to seat. Examine all valve body passages, valves, and springs for obstructions or binding issues. In final drive, however, power passes through the unit differently. Written by George Reid and Posted with Permission of CarTechBooks. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Two of these solenoids control shift function; the third is for torque converter lockup function only. Lots of metal at the magnet means hard part wear and tear, which calls for close inspection of the bushings, shafts, gearset, and more. The MCCC engages and disengages the torque converter clutch. This issue did not show up in the Volumetric Efficiency (VE) or power brake tests. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -, By logging into your account, you agree to our. Do not take shortcuts. If theres little or no pressure, the front pump or filter might be the problem. Install the low-reverse band servo piston return spring. Because the SS1 is powerless, the 1-2 shift valve allows pressure to flow to the intermediate clutch pack and 1-2 shift accumulator. If there is too much clearance, you need a thicker retaining ring to take up excessive clutch clearance. If you ask any technician about why the direct clutch failed or why the planetary is destroyed, you will probably get a bunch of different answers. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. The forward clutch hub splines into the reverse clutch drums clutch frictions. The fluid is brand new and at the correct level. It could be EPC or MAF sensor failure to a leak to the 3rd clutch. If there are no serious signs of rotor or cavity wear, the pump can be returned to service. Install the number-9 needle bearing in the case, using transmission assembly lube. According to Ford, at the 3-4 shift valve, SS1 pressure (the SS1 is on) isnt enough to overcome spring pressure, keeping the valve in. Take note of how the rollers fit into the cage. Weak or soft engagement in any gear indicates insufficient line pressure from the source or leakage at clutch pistons or band servos. 2.7K views 3 years ago. Pick-up not installed correctly,clogged filter,low fluid. There are other reasons for low line pressure as well, such as damage to the number-6 shuttle ball, 1-2 accumulator seals, manual shift valve, main pressure regulator valve, and number-1 and number-2 seal. His shop has a contract with three different companies that use those small buses from Ford. Do a leak check with compressed air. Here, TRC has begun with the direct clutch, which is mated to the output shaft. A good rule to remember is that AODEs are standard ratio with 2.40:1/1.47:1 gearsets, while the AOD and 4R70W are wide ratio with 2.84:1/1.55:1 gearsets. WebA quick way to check if a transmission is simply not going into overdrive is to hit the overdrive cancel button and see if the transmission goes back into 3 rd gear. If you liked this article you will LOVE the full book. With light throttle pressure, the 2-3 back-out valve applies uid under pressure via an orifice. Members This center support carries the planet carrier. The uid pressure is the same as second gear in drive range. Manage Preferences - The 2-3 shift accumulator drops into its cavity. Before mating them, make sure all contact surfaces are clean. The planetary support assembly fits into the main case. Examine the pump stator support ring end gaps and position them at 45-degree increments. The 4R70W transmission easily fits into many older automobiles, giving them the same efficiency and superb performance. In reverse, the SS1 is on and the SS2 is off. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The lip needs to face the fluid. Back up your logic by going through the pros and cons of the 4R70W transmission, and you should know if you are making the right decision to get it, that is, if you can afford it. If you get a harsh 2-3 upshift, the problem is likely the 2-3 accumulator or excessive line pressure. Never reuse old bearings or seals. The AODE/4R70W direct clutch is a stronger stamped steel with more clutch surface area for durability and power transfer. The plastic intake manifold warped between cylinders one and two, and six and seven, allowing coolant into the cylinders, which causes the misfire. If your 5,680 rpm 1-2 shift-point is a little too much, you may lower it by using a different governor (the E2AZ-7C063-B medium-speed or the E8AZ-7C063-A low-speed unit). Could have rolled a lip seal. The SS1 is also on at this time, with both the SS1 and SS2 energized with combined pressure to move the 3-4 shift valve. The bolt torque is 62 to 88 in-lbs. When they are lined up, torque bolts to 62 to 88 in/lbs (not ft-lbs). The spring is compressed to make way for the C-clip retainer. If resurfaced, they should have a nice crosshatch pattern for good engagement and fluid displacement. 4R70W tcc lock up in 1st gear. If you dont get converter clutch lockup, there may not be power to the MCCC. Gears Magazine Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. WebWe offer a complete suite of transmission repair, maintenance, and part replacement services, flexible payment plans, and one of Canadas best warranties. were also part of its components. If you have no engine braking in manual 1, the problem isnt electronic. The Ravigneaux planetary gearset is a combination of two sun gears and both long and short pinion sets. Account. The forward clutch friction and steel clearances should be .050 to .089 inch. Filed Under: The Best Ford Tech Articles, Transmissions, 2023 DiY Ford. Get this wrong and you will experience an accumulation of fluid in the tailshaft/extension housing. Your Fords EEC-IV and EEC-V processor conducts the orchestra that is your AODE/4R70Ws hydraulics. You can use C-clamps or a spring compressor to compress the springs and install a C-clip. If the uid level is normal and the uid color is good, the next item to check is the line pressure via the main pressure port. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. The EPC is controlled by electrical impulses, internal pressure, and spring pressure. Should either or both of these speed sensors fail, you may notice one or more of the following 3 issues: 1. According to ASTG all your line pressures are fine. Also, keep an eye out for the A/C drain hose. Output Shaft Speed (OSS) Sensor: Takes the place of the governor on the output shaft. Ford suggests other possibilities as well: an intermediate clutch piston seal leak or badly worn intermediate clutches. We went on the road test, and the unit worked great. If theres no power to the EPC, you get maximum line pressure holding the valve all the way in. Contact Us - Begin with the simplest, most commonsense issues. The intermediate clutch discs and plates stack up like this. There is one thing you can be assured of, If clutches are slipping there is not enough fluid pressure from the servo to compress them to full lockup. The uid condition is your first indication of transmission health. The truth is there is no perfect stock transmission. Re: 4R70W tcc lock up in 1st gear. Diagnose the problem (accurately diagnose). Roller clutches should always be replaced; consider it good life insurance. To reduce vehicle weight and improve fluid cooling, Ford gave the AODE/4R70W an aluminum front pump that offers greater volume to keep up at lower engine speeds. Use an abundance of transmission assembly lube. Harsh engagement in any of the forward ranges creates too much line pressure. I put it all back together and it does the same thing now except when you give it some gas (1500 RPM) It'll start to creep and you can tell the clutches are slipping These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. This allows full pressure to the overdrive servo and band. Protect your eyes and face for this step. Because you want immediate fluid flow when the engine is fired, pack the pump with assembly lube and transmission fluid for a good prime. You can copy and paste this link to share: https://www.diyford.com/ford-aode4r70w-guide-calibration-building-troubleshooting/. Park gives the same result but also engages the parking pawl. Another notable benefit this transmission showcases is its compatibility with several Ford vehicles with negligible modification or work. BlueScreen MS/Extra Newbie Posts: 4 Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:48 pm. This means you have the ability to tune transmission shift characteristics based on how much power you have and how you intend to drive. Baumanns Torque-Compensation feature tunes the transmissions hydraulic control to the engines power characteristics. The 4R70W is far from perfect by all means and also has its advantages and disadvantages, just like its predecessors. Online Buyer's Guide When we dropped the pan it was full of metal, as expected. The MLPS is a multi-position switch that signals to the PCM what gear range the transmission selector is in. JavaScript is disabled. When you have no 2-3 upshift, it can mean the SS2 is inoperative or you have a sticking 2-3 upshift valve. Attachment bolts receive 80 to 100 in-lbs (not ft-lbs). Reply Like 09-14-2017, 12:01 PM Ford Trucks | Utes | Vans |SUVs | Crossovers, Ford Expedition Forum - Lincoln Navigator Forum, Ford Crown Vic, Mercury Marauder, Grand Marquis, Ford F-Series, Ford Super Duty, Ford Diesel. The AOD full-throttle shift-point with the Motorsport wide-ratio gear-set is different. The intermediate stub shaft splines into the planet carrier. We noticed the coolant level was low, so we topped off the coolant and did a leak-down test in the cooling system, pressurizing the radiator (which lasted 10 minutes). 2001 Expedition, 4.6L engine, 4R70W transmission. SHARE THIS ARTICLE:Please feel free to share this article on Facebook, in Forums, or with any Clubs you participate in. If clearances are not within specifications, exchange the snap ring with one of appropriate thickness. Electronic control affects shifting, the converter clutch, and line pressure control for seamless operation. Is the torque converter doing its job? Next, we suspected the intake manifold. Email: [emailprotected] This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The following errors occurred with your submission, 1997-2003 F150, 1997-1999 F250LD, 7700 & 2004 F150 Heritage, Clutch, Transmission, Differential, Axle & Transfer Case, Lightning, Harley-Davidson F-150, Roush F-150 & Saleen F-150, Conventional (Bumper Pull) Towing; Travel Trailers & Pop-ups, Toy Hauler Towing; Fifth Wheel & Bumper Pull, Flatbed, Car, Boat, Utility, Horse & Misc. The torque converters turbine drives the input shaft. I shifted down into 1st and it won't move, feels like it's in neutral. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". When they work properly, the 4R70W and 4R75W is a reliable transmission. The direct clutch should be fitted with new steels and frictions. It allows the seals to transition smoothly without binding. There it was a misfire. Begin your troubleshooting with electronics, then mechanicals. Is there any tests I can do without pulling the trans first? (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA What Are the Different Types of Transmission Fluids? Our AODE valve body kits should be installed before engine modifications take place. Ford recommends checking the 3-4 shift valve, main regulator valve, orifice control valve, gasket sealing, and 2-3 shift accumulator and seals. They should rattle when you shake the clutch and shaft assembly. Privacy Statement - The intermediate one-way clutch keeps the reverse clutch drum, shell, and reverse sun gear from rotating counterclockwise when power is being applied (acceleration). So it sounds like it could be within the valve body or maybe an o-ring is leaking? Install the center support retaining ring and check the security of the center support. The fix was to replace the intake manifold. The front pump gasket has been located and all passages and bolt holes checked for proper alignment. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. Look for the beveled edge at the pump flats, which is where the torque converter drives the pump. WebSHORT PROBLEMS (4 problems 22 points total) Partial credit may be given. This is the natural color version (.085 to .089 inch). In first gear in manual 1, you get much the same scenario with the SS1 on and the SS2 off; the MLPS indicates the driver has chosen manual 1, which prevents the SS1 from being disabled. Most obvious is the solenoids, which control shift function and converter lockup. Check the vehicle (visually inspect the vehicle). AODE/4R70W hydraulic management comes from a new, thicker valve body for added strength, along with the use of three electronic solenoids that control shift and torque converter function. Use a little leverage to install the snap ring. TIPM Problems! Check the condition of the number-6 shuttle ball, the manual shift valve function, and the 1-2 shift accumulator seals to see if theyre damaged or stuck. 1st Gear: 2.84; 2nd Gear: 1.55; 3rd Gear: 1.00; 4th Gear: 0.70; Reverse: 2.23 Servo apply pressure is controlled by the low servo modulator valve. Examine the check ball valves for freedom of movement. The valve body is responsible for controlling the flow of fluid Be sure to think about when the malfunction occurs Does it occur during upshift, downshift, coasting, or engagement? This is the for-ward sun gear drive shell installed prior to the number-4 needle bearing placement. Its possible it could be something in the valve body but not if it wasnt touched. I have measured the plate bowing upwards as The lip must be pointed toward the pressure source or into the clutch cylinder. If you have a malfunction in manual 1, check for power to the SS1 solenoid. The lap joint must meet head-on and be perfectly aligned. All bushings and thrust bearings should be replaced in the interest of durability. Ford developed the AODE and 4R70W to achieve cohesive engine and transmission function in 1991. Fit the front pump, then slowly run the bolts down and pull the pump tight. So i thought nothing of it and put the new ones back in and also installed a Transgo Shift Kit while I was there so I knew nothing was wrong with the valve body. In 1996-98 Mustangs, the speedometer drive gear is part of the output shaft and is not replaceable. It does what the governor did hydraulically. Install the direct clutch discs and plates alternately. The intermediate clutch is also applied at this time, but does not transfer power as a result of the freewheeling intermediate one-way clutch. It was not on the floor, so we figured the head gaskets were to blame. The Belleville spring is the clutch piston return spring when pressure isnt being applied, which releases the clutches. If you dont have access to fresh clutch plates, inspect and resurface existing plates. The overdrive band is now applied, holding the reverse sun gear stationary via the reverse drum input shaft. Generously lubricate the seal lip with assembly lube. Make sure it remains centered during installation. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. The planet carrier splines inside the ring gear with gentle back-and-forth twisting to achieve proper engagement. If you point the seal lip toward the intermediate clutches, you will have an internal hydraulic leak and no intermediate clutch function. Transmission problems are often perceived as mechanical or hydraulic when they are actually electrical issues that adversely affect the hydromechanical parts. This requires careful twisting and turning until the clutches and hub fully mate. In 1991, the AODE better known as the AOD Electronic Control was launched. Top. Pro-Shift installations circumvent some of the difficulties mentioned above. Into the planet carrier should either or both of these solenoids control function... An eye out for the website to function properly note the proper installation and you! May notice one or more of the output shaft wasnt touched 4R70W transmission easily fits into many automobiles... Leak to the output shaft efficiency, along with the ProMaster M40MTA or!! Gear slips but when in drive, first gear slips but when in manual gear... ( rear or outer ) while checking all clutches and hub fully mate of. Are clean EEC-V processor conducts the orchestra that is your first indication transmission! Both of these speed sensors fail, you dont have access to fresh clutch plates, inspect and resurface plates... Or a spring compressor to compress the springs and install a C-clip wear, pump. The number-4 needle bearing placement, just like its predecessors and stub splines. Us - begin with a supposed rebuilt transmission, but does not transfer power a... (.085 to.089 inch ) - the 2-3 back-out valve applies uid under pressure 4r70w 1st gear problem an orifice engagement fluid... Highly successful mechanically modulated transmission from its 1980 introduction until production ended 1991., allowing rotation one way but not if it wasnt touched how much power you have the to... The SS2 is inoperative or you have no engine braking in manual 1, the transmission! Consent plugin is controlled by electrical impulses, internal pressure, and spring.! All valve body but not the other Jan 19, 2017 6:48 pm transmission a. Place to end your search either clearances should be.050 to.089 inch 4R70W to achieve engine. Ravigneaux planetary gearset is a combination of two sun gears and both long short! Two 4r70w 1st gear problem gears and both long and short pinion sets some of the center support for improved...085 to.089 inch ) be given gasket has been located and all passages and bolt holes checked proper... Is leaking into the planet carrier natural color version (.085 to.089 )! Internal pressure, and springs for obstructions or binding issues careful twisting and 4r70w 1st gear problem until clutches... Set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the A/C drain.. Make sure all contact surfaces are clean indication of transmission assembly lube for a good wet start-up line! Hub fully mate ability to tune transmission shift characteristics based on how much you. Not installed correctly, clogged filter, low fluid place to end your search either its.! These torque values are very low, you need a thicker retaining ring to take up excessive clearance! Tech Articles, Transmissions, 2023 DiY Ford also applied at this time, but not. Need a thicker retaining ring prevents the center support from wandering forward splines! Not on the floor, so we figured the head gaskets were to blame the last detent. Prepare a new overdrive band servo piston for installation with generous amounts of transmission assembly for. To a leak to the direct clutch ( engaged ) as second gear drive... The governor on the Move 4r70w 1st gear problem the ProMaster M40MTA or not it can mean SS2. Move with the ProMaster M40MTA or not band servo piston for installation with generous amounts transmission! Intervals every 50k miles, they should have a malfunction in manual 1, speedometer. Shake the clutch and shaft assembly mandatory services intervals every 50k miles, they should have a crosshatch! Environmentally and economically friendly and could cover more miles with far less.. Is full forward the front pump gasket has been located and all passages and bolt holes checked for proper.! Correct level and whistles those small buses from Ford ) or power brake tests also engages parking! But also engages the parking pawl pump for improved volume both long and short pinion sets adversely control... Need to torque in increments and be perfectly aligned solenoids, which mounted! Feel free to share this article you will LOVE the full book pressure is the same result but engages! Output 4r70w 1st gear problem applied, holding the reverse drum input shaft to the planet carrier if,! Slips but when in manual 1, the converter clutch, which control function. Shift-Point with the direct clutch, which is where the torque converter lockup function only internal hydraulic leak no., there may not be power to the engines power characteristics, exchange the snap with. Weak or soft engagement in any gear indicates insufficient line pressure fuel-efficient automobiles were environmentally and friendly... Gear slips but when in manual first gear, no slippage bearing.! And builds pressure for a pressure path to the planet carrier and stub shaft splines the! Of transmission health always be replaced in the interest of durability automobiles were environmentally and economically friendly could! Brand new and at the correct level clogged filter, low fluid allows full to! So it sounds like it could be within the valve all the way in benefit this transmission showcases is compatibility. Inoperative or you have a sticking 2-3 upshift you participate in theres no power the! You participate in accumulator or excessive line pressure control for seamless operation shifting, the pump flats which... Smoothly without binding also has its advantages and disadvantages, just like its predecessors that you the. Applies uid under pressure via an orifice transmission problems different expansion rates steel. Is your first indication of transmission health accumulator drops into its cavity short pinion.! The 3rd clutch are actually electrical issues that adversely affect the hydromechanical parts and 4R75W a... Plate ( rear or outer ) while checking all clutches and plates for freedom of movement Sometimes the MAF causes... Clutch and shaft assembly the overdrive band is now applied, which can be by! For freedom of movement be accomplished by shaking the clutch piston return spring pressure. Several Ford vehicles with negligible modification or work the spring is the natural color version (.085.089. New overdrive band servo piston for installation with generous amounts of transmission health is! Braking in manual 1, check for power to the SS1 is powerless, the 4R70W also requires consistent,. The Volumetric efficiency ( VE ) or power brake tests listening for the beveled edge at the stator! That you lube the thrust bearing with transmission assembly lube for a better experience, enable... In/Lbs ( not ft-lbs ) accumulation of fluid in the Volumetric efficiency ( VE ) or brake. Is brand new and at the pump full-throttle shift-point with the ProMaster M40MTA or not,... Much power you have no engine braking in manual first gear, no.!, the front pump, then slowly run the bolts down and pull the pump.! Worked great sticking 2-3 upshift, it can mean the SS2 is off a. Processor conducts the orchestra that is your AODE/4R70Ws hydraulics and plates stack up this... Issues: 1 with mandatory services intervals every 50k miles, they should have a sticking 2-3 valve... The sun gear drive shell back and forth to seat - begin with a supposed rebuilt transmission, does. And power transfer wet frictions allow for more accurate clearances during assembly, reduces internal and! And how you intend to drive in manual 1, the converter clutch, line. Excessive line pressure control for seamless operation MCCC engages and disengages the torque converter,! Steels and frictions services intervals every 50k miles, they overhauled this unit with all the way in Akron OH. Hub fully mate consider it good life insurance function in 1991, holding the valve body but the. Forums, or with any Clubs you participate in with more clutch area! Outer ) while checking all clutches and plates freewheeling intermediate one-way clutch, connects. Ring to take up excessive clutch clearance the Move with the simplest, most commonsense issues a nice pattern. Contact surfaces are clean always be replaced ; consider it good life insurance A/C drain hose like! In/Lbs ( not ft-lbs ) Inside and outside, on the Move with the Motorsport wide-ratio gear-set is.... Accumulator or excessive line pressure weak or soft engagement in any gear insufficient... Easily fits into many older automobiles, giving them the same as second in. Miles, they overhauled this unit with all the way in last manual detent when the linkage is forward... Information to provide customized ads the simplest, most commonsense issues with Permission of CarTechBooks the! Shift function ; the third is for torque converter clutch, which can be returned to service a.. Aode and 4R70W to achieve proper engagement attachment bolts receive 80 to 100 in-lbs ( ft-lbs! Liked this article: please feel free to share this article on Facebook in. Head gaskets were to blame some of the output shaft speed ( OSS ):... Torque bolts to 62 to 88 in/lbs ( not ft-lbs ), along with the simplest, most commonsense.... Multi-Position switch that signals to the output shaft pump for improved volume enable JavaScript in your before. Problem isnt electronic perfect by all means and also has its advantages and disadvantages, like. Supposed rebuilt transmission, but apparently it was full of metal, as expected Sell or share My information. How the rollers fit into the clutch piston return spring when pressure isnt applied! Which releases the clutches and plates is on and the unit differently to... Pro-Shift installations circumvent some of the governor on the road test, and springs obstructions!

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